Dear Ralph:
I love your magazine. I had a 2006 Ski-Doo REV 600 SDI Renegade with 5.7 Pilot skis. Each ski had two wear rods, one in the center and one on the outside edge. I just bought a 2012 Ski-Doo 600 E-TEC Renegade Adrenaline XP with 5.7 pilot skis, but it only has 1 wear rod down the middle. Will this sled handle the corners alright like this? The skis can have holes drilled in them on the outside edge so I can install wear rods. Do I need to do that?
Larry Carlson

Generally, an XP with one runner (per ski) handles like a REV did with two runners per ski. The rider positioning of the XP places more weight on the skis than the REV chassis does so it doesn’t need the extra runners to give you the same steering response. If you add the two outer runners to the XP skis (we tried it when the XP first came out back in 2008) it will make the sled turn even harder – steering effort increases.
I highly doubt you will find the Renegade lacking in handling capability. Try the sled as it is delivered and then make adjustments based on what doesn’t suit you. If you do want even more cornering bite simply install more aggressive runners in the center. I would not install the extra set of runners, we’ve found that to be too much.

Dear Ralph:

Eric Fisher
Waunakee, WI

Technically they are basically the same……..with the differences being tunnel & running boards, front end width, skis, seat, and telescopic steering column. I guess I don’t see the issue if it is called one or the other, it is really a hybrid between the two that didn’t exist until late into the spring, as there were no prototypes for us to ride and photograph.

It is positioned as a ProCross from a marketing standpoint, simply because it is an XF and the XF series is a ProCross. The only reason I see the High Country being called an XF (and thus ProCross) is the track length – 141”. Everything else about is is a short track M sled, thus ProClimb. It has the ProClimb tunnel to be able to stuff the 2.25” lug height in there. The HCR mountain sleds also use the 42-43” adjustable front end, so they are kind of in the same predicament, except for their track lengths – 153” and 162”. It’s like when Ski-Doo came out with their Renegade – they first called it a Summit Renegade, but quickly decided to call it an MX Z Renegade to better position it for marketing (and the expected buyers).

So, the High Country is positioned as a ProCross but in reality it is a hybrid of both platforms. The difference between ProCross and ProClimb is more of a marketing differentiation than anything else. The same, but slightly different.

Dear Ralph:

I tend to value the opinion your magazine has towards the manufacturers and the products they offer. I dropped all of my other subscriptions to the other magazines because of their bias to one brand or the other instead of giving an open-minded opinion. I assume you have ridden the 2012 sleds. That is why I am asking for your comparison and opinion on two of the 2012 sleds that I am looking to purchase. One is the Ski-Doo Renegade Backcountry-X 800 E-TEC and the other is the Arctic Cat XF 800 Sno Pro High Country. I know both offer great technology. I have ridden a 2011 Renegade Backcountry-X 800 and it was not a big wow for me. It has nice even power, seemed to track pretty straight in the corners, great gauge cluster and a comfortable seat. The things I did not like were that in moderately deep snow we had this year it did not want to stay on edge when carving through the snow and It was not that great of a riding suspension (I have read posts that say these need proper set-up and then they are awesome).

Mark Anderson
Hibbing, MN

You raise many valid concerns. Our staff has pretty much ridden all of the new sleds, but as you point out the Arctic Cat High Country was a late edition so we have to go off what we know about the new XF 800 Sno Pro. The two sleds you mention are both very good machines, but different. What follows is just an opinion.

The 2012 Arctic Cat High Country should be a superior off trail sled compared to the Backcountry X, all out how does it get through the snow. The Cat should have the better front end, should ride more comfortably, likely bottom easier, it will be louder, use more gas and oil, smokes and shakes more, about the same power, more linear power delivery. The E-TEC 800R is awesome; smoother, better fuel and oil economy, less smoke and smell, and it seems to hit a bit harder with the e-RAVE powervalve system. They’re both great engines, and they’re both more powerful and more reliable than the Polaris 800.

Then we get to the details. Things you noticed on the Cat. This is where the X is going to be superior. We all know that. I too noticed how the rear of the cowling split your legs while riding it much like the first REVs, so we will have to add some accessory items to catch our knees and stop them from moving out. It was an issue for us as well.

The Cat will be awesome to transition, and remains very responsive to rider input – even more so with this new platform. Compared to the old Crossfire the riding position is better, more like the Sno Pro 500/600, as it now gets your hips above your knees so you can pop up even easier. You have nothing to worry about there, this is a different beast than the more-planted F-chassis. The off trail performance should be exceptional. Cats always hold their edge better than a 16” wide track Doo. The tall lugs are going to be an issue if the snow isn’t fresh, so I’d run ice scratchers, and don’t expect to run it at high speeds for very long down hardpack. You know that.

It comes down to build quality. Can Arctic Cat build a bunch of these things and get the wiring routing right? Will the tie wraps be in the right place? How about heat shields, heat tape? Will fuel lines be routed next to sharp edges? Will the plastic fit right? Detail issues for the most part, but valid ones. In their defense, Arctic Cat used to build a single early production run of new sleds, work the bugs out as good as possible, and then go to full production. With this new platform, Arctic Cat has built up to as many as six smaller pilot runs of sleds, working out the bugs each time, so this has given them many more chances to get everything as good as possible before going to the actual full production build. And they had a super-long spring testing season out west so they were able to get some high miles and hours on their calibration units, so they have made every effort to do their best with the new sleds.

Movement in the chaincase – I assume you are talking about how the jackshaft moves around within the radial bearing at the top of the case, and how the top gear will move within the rotating chain. With the radius of the top gear and how the chain fits the gear, and how the bearing is designed, we have no immediate concerns here. I spoke at length with the engineer on this system and believe they have it under control. I am more actually more concerned about under hood heat and air management, especially at high engine rpm and low ground speeds.

From what you have shared with me, I really don’t think you could go wrong either way, but since you’re on a Cat now I believe the Cat will be the better sled for you, performance-wise. Long term I’d rather own the Ski-Doo, from a durability, reliability and fuel economy stand point, but for any given day with a foot of fresh snow I’d ride the Cat. Remember, it’s just an opinion based on our experience so far.

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My dad gave me a 2003 MXZ Adrenaline 600 HO a few years ago. When he gave it to me it had about 8000 miles and that was in 2006. Now I’m 15 years old and it has 16,000 miles. I’m afraid that I’m going to blow it up. It still has the original pistons and is lacking somewhat in compression but it still runs great. I’m a very aggressive rider. In fact, I beat the tar out of my sleds. I know that year that they used the same bottom end as the 700 twin so that’s probably why it’s lasted so long. But I’m just wondering, what should I do to prevent it from blowing up? And if it does blow up, I’m screwed aren’t I?

Peter Healy

I agree that 16,000 miles on a two-stroke would make me nervous. Larger bore engines are harder on the pistons than smaller bore engines, so the 600 isn’t going to be in as bad of shape as an 800, but 16,000 miles means you are getting more and more likely to have an issue. I would want an experienced technician (sled mechanic) to take the motor down and check the pistons, rings, cylinders, and the crank bearings. There are specifications for things like piston skirt to cylinder clearance, piston ring end gap, and cylinder trueness, but I would install new pistons and rings if the motor is taken apart, regardless. Cheap insurance. If it “blows” you might be looking at more damage than simply parts and labor for pistons and rings and a gasket kit. Damage to the connecting rods, head, cylinders, power valves, crankcase, crankshaft, it is all possible and far more expensive. It all depends on if something breaks or if it just suffers a seizure of some sort. Being proactive is always better than being reactive when it comes to high-mile engines.

Maybe we should ask you what it sounds like when you start it up? Any knocking sounds? When an engine is cold, the pistons are at their smallest diameter and the piston-to-cylinder clearance is at its largest. When an engine gets really worn, the cold pistons will be “rattling” around in the cylinders before they expand slightly and take up some of the room that let them rock and knock. This typically occurs at the bottom of the stroke as the connecting rod is changing directions, and the loose piston rocks from one side of the cylinder bore to the other.

Dear Ralph:

A while back I remember you telling me to try the carbide runner from Starting Line Products that you have been using on the Straight Line Tracking skis for years. When I went to order some, the 35-122 runners are not listed any more……….. what happened?
Orv Olson

When you told me this I about flipped out. I have been recommending the 35-122 carbides for the Straight Line Tracking skis from SLP ever since they came out, so I about panicked. I always have a good supply on hand, so I checked with SLP to see what the deal was. They told me their carbide supplier stopped carrying the 90-degree carbide inserts that has been used on the 35-122 runners, so they switched to a 75-degree insert, which was more readily available and had the most similar handling characteristics to the 90-degree variety.

In reality, six inches of the 75-degree carbide acted more like six inches of the even more aggressive 60-degree carbide than it did the original six inches of 90-degree carbide of the 35-122 design. Further testing revealed that four inches of the 75-degree carbide was the most similar to the six inches of 90-degree carbide on the Straight Line Tracking ski. Since the length and angle of the carbide changed, they opted to change the part number of the runner as well. The new part number is 35-126 and it has a 4 inch 75 degree insert. Starting Line also passed on the savings to you, as they were able to reduce the price by $5.28. Hopefully this clears up any confusion.

Dear Ralph:
I’ve been having a problem with my 2009 IQ Dragon wanting to lift the inside ski when going through a turn. Every time I hit the throttle it lifts. So in turn, I have to get on and off the gas. I have the rear scissors block in the full forward position. I’ve tried putting more down pressure on the ski’s but I think this is making things worse.

This sled doesn’t have an adjustable limiter strap. Will shortening the strap help? I have to find a way to keep the ski’s down. And by the way, they are aftermarket skis. Can you give me some suggestions to try? I mostly trail ride in the UP of Michigan and Wisconsin.

Thanks,
Kip Harms
Cullom, IL

This is primarily due by the tall ride height and center of gravity of being a bump sled. As sleds get taller with more suspension travel, the good old flat cornering is more difficult to maintain. There is no single silver bullet, but many things can be done to compensate. You want to lower the center of gravity by relaxing the rear springs, torsion and center, and the front ski springs. If any of these are tighter than need be, the sled will sit taller and it will be more tippy. Also, sharp runners tend to catch and tip the sled instead of sliding, so aftermarket skis will carve more but will tend to add to the ski lift. I guess I should ask what kind of track/traction you have, this will affect it as well. More traction (like a fully studded track) will also lift the inside ski.

This was really brought to light with the new track on the 2012 Yamaha FX Nytro RTX. Here we have a stand-up platform with a fairly high center of gravity, thus a fairly frequent ski lifter. They went with a new track for 2012 that lets the back end slide a bit more, and guess what? The inside ski stays much flatter. Very noticeable.

Back to your sled – We want the sled to squat some, and if anything roll the body slightly before lifting the ski. I would set the ski springs to full soft, get the ride height set to sag the rear as much as possible, verify center spring is not too tight. Try less aggressive carbide runners, but then it will push more. Shortening the limiter will help, but the strap is non-adjustable for a reason as this changes the angle of the rails and coupling timing. I try to stay away from shortening the limiter on the coupled suspensions since it limits front arm travel, so you lose some bump capability. It is all a fine delicate balance of give and take, gain here, lose there. But in the end, you could be fighting the design more than the calibration. There is only so much that can be done with calibration changes.

Dear Ralph:

Orv Olson

When you told me this I about flipped out. I have been recommending the 35-122 carbides for the Straight Line Tracking skis from SLP ever since they came out, so I about panicked. I always have a good supply on hand, so I checked with SLP to see what the deal was. They told me their carbide supplier stopped carrying the 90-degree carbide inserts that has been used on the 35-122 runners, so they switched to a 75-degree insert, which was more readily available and had the most similar handling characteristics to the 90-degree variety.

In reality, six inches of the 75-degree carbide acted more like six inches of the even more aggressive 60-degree carbide than it did the original six inches of 90-degree carbide of the 35-122 design. Further testing revealed that four inches of the 75-degree carbide was the most similar to the six inches of 90-degree carbide on the Straight Line Tracking ski. Since the length and angle of the carbide changed, they opted to change the part number of the runner as well. The new part number is 35-126 and it has a 4 inch 75 degree insert. Starting Line also passed on the savings to you, as they were able to reduce the price by $5.28.  Hopefully this clears up any confusion.

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